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Study Group: Theosophy: Chapter I 
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Post Study Group: Theosophy: Chapter I
Here we go again. Please review the study group operating rules from the beginning of the Introduction thread (if you don't have them memorized), read the chapter, and join right in. We'll start the actual discussion on Monday, to give everyone a chance to read.

Here is the link to the chapter. You'll have to keep clicking as you go, the chapter goes on into four sub-sections.

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Books/GA009/Eng ... index.html

Thanks for joining us!


Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:19 am
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Count me in! I'm new

Erica


Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:18 pm
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Great Erica, welcome to the group and the book study!
We love to see our little circle grow in participants! :D

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Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:56 pm
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Post Chapter I. The Essential Nature of Man, paragraph 1
In the first chapter Steiner begins with a text by Goethe, describing the humans immediate relation to his surrounding world:
As soon as man becomes aware of the objects around him he immediately considers them in relation to himself, which is necessary to determine his given circumstances, does he need to flee the situation or not, does he like or dislike the object he is looking at etc.
Such situations can easily cause errors in judgment, which can ashame him as well as embitter him.

Next paragraph: "A far more difficult task is...."

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Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:13 am
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Post Para 1 (cont) Chapter I
When we try to observe and study the world as it is we immediately miss the convenient standard of our own likes and dislikes and face the difficult task of looking upon all objects in the same dispassionate mode. When looking at plants we should study plants in relation to each other and the whole rather than in terms of how they are useful, pleasureable or dangerous to humanity.

[my translation has indications of the original paragraph arrangement in the German and I'm going to use that to help me keep track of where we are]

Next paragraph in the online edition begins:
This thought thus expressed by Goethe directs...


Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:06 am
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Sorry ladies, major stuff happening, but I can do the next two short paragraphs now:

Human beings relate to the world around them in a threefold manner, regarding things as (1) sense-perceptible objects (facts), (2) personal impressions of these objects (e.g., antipathy, sympathy, perceiving things as useful or harmful), and (3) the knowledge of the more hidden aspects and functions of objects (which is always a goal to strive for).

Next paragraph: Why does the world appear to man in this threefold way?

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Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:27 am
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Sorry ladies, I know I am posting a bit early, but a busy day for us tomorrow and I do not want to leave it until the last minute...

The reason for this threefold manner is simple, after we have perceived an object/ or objects, it will arouse a feeling within us that will stay with us most likely throughout our lives. Even if we encounter the same objects at another time or in another space, the feelings that have been previously aroused in us by the object will be aroused again and bring back memories to us of that feeling in the past.
The object has revealed itself to man and may belong to the outer world, but is not dependent on the existence of the human in the same way as the feelings are of importance within the person himself.

Next paragraph: "By these means man continually links...."

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Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:37 am
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I do another paragraph, hope I am not left by myself here.... :cry:

Through these means man always connects himself via this threefold way to the world. This threefold is indicated by body, soul and spirit of man. Body through which the objects reveal themselves to man, soul is signified by the way in which he links himself to them, likes and dislikes, joy versus sorrow etc. and by spirit how the external world manifests itself in him.

Next paragraph: "Through his body man is able..."

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:21 am
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I'll just finish this section since the paragraphs are short!

Through our body and senses we relate to the physical world, and our bodies are made of physical matter and subject to physical laws. We can observe our own physical bodies with our senses. In this way we belong to the external world.

Through our soul we retain our impressions of the world. We cannot observe our souls using our senses; our soul worlds are internal. In this way we create an internal realm.

Through our spirit we are aware of the essential nature of the world. Through our thoughts we can perceive the higher nature of the world and let that world reveal its own significance. In this way we perceive a higher realm.

Next para: (The Corporeal Nature of Man) "We learn to know man's body through bodily senses..."

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Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:28 pm
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Post Paragraph 10 in my edition!
We can observe and learn about the physical body because it is an object which can be experienced through our senses, just like all the other stuff we look at and touch. The human body has elements of the mineral, plant and animal and we are part of all three realms or they are part of us. As mineral, we build up our bodies our of substance, as plants we grow and have offspring (reproduce), as animals we experience the world and have an inner life in response to our experiences.

Next paragraph begins: "The differences in structure of minerals, plants and animals correspond with the three forms of their existence. It is this..."


Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:40 pm
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The last two paragraphs in this chapter:

Although man may correspond with theses three forms of existence, he is anatomically different from the three. In an evolutionary aspect of mans body the fine construction of the nervous system and especially his brain still provide unsolved problems for the medical profession. "... this concentration of structures ever increases in the animal kingdom and reaches in man a stage unequaled in any other being is a fully established fact - a fact that is of the deepest significance in regard to the mental evolution of man. Indeed, we may go so far as to say it is really a sufficient explanation of that evolution."
This developed build of man, specifically of the brain, places the fundamental condition for higher knowledge in mans hand.

Just as we accredit the three forms of existence, mineral, plant and animal to the human body we have to add a fourth - the distinctively human form. Through the mineral form man is related to everything visible, through the plantlike existence to the propagation of his species, through his animal existence he is able to perceive his surroundings and create inner experiences via the outside world. Through his human form of existence he is able to create "a kingdom by himself"- not just in regards to his body.

I have copied a few sentences as they are written in the online translation of the text, as to highlight a problematic question that seems to be re-occurring with Rudolf Steiner's philosophies and the belief regarding mans evolution.
I was told that Steiner did not agree with the Darwinian theory of evolution, the above translation though would assume that he did? Maybe just to a certain extent,... or my understanding of the text is not complete?

Next paragraph - 2. The Soul Nature of Man: Man's soul nature as his own inner world is different... "

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Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:53 am
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Post comment on last two or three paragraphs
Evolution.

It depends on exactly what you mean by the term. Except for a few die-hard Biblical Creationists, pretty much everyone agrees that physical life forms have changed over time. Exactly how much time is somewhat unclear, but that is another question.

However, the cause of the change over time can still be discussed.

Random mutations "selected" by the survival of the fittest is one explanation, with a few flourishes added over the last 150 years.

Steiner's angle is sort of different. He sees spirit first, matter second, with the different life forms coming out of an interplay between spirit and matter. He also sees life forms gradually solidifying, so, for example, humanity may have been present since the beginning of the earth, but, as the most refined, we descended into solid bodies last.

I'm totally fascinated by the different ways of looking at evolution. I think when we finish with Theosophy (5 years or so), we could study "Man as Symphony of the Creative Word" (not sure of the title).

Hope that helps a bit.


Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:19 am
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My understanding of Steiner's view of "evolution" (and this is my recalling it from Foundation Year lo these many years ago) is that instead of humans evolving out of more "primitive" creatures, those creatures represent aspects of the human being that needed to be shed or that were in excess in the evolving human being. So each creature (and here I'm thinking of animals) may represent some aspect of humanity, but in a stronger or less refined form.

Humans can still be seen as the "pinnacle" of evolution, but the process is completely different than Darwin's. As Deborah pointed out, humans have existed in spirit all along, so it would be erroneous according to Steiner to say humans developed out of animals. One could say that each animal is a reflection of a process of refinement of the human being.

It's a similar picture to Steiner's view of the separation of the Moon and the Earth: if the Moon hadn't become a separate heavenly body, the Earth would have become too hardened and ultimately lifeless. In a like manner, perhaps we had to lose some other aspect, like the fiery nature of the lion or the ruminative nature of the cow, before our nervous system could develop to support our intellectual functions.

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Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:40 pm
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The Soul Nature of Man:

The human soul exists in an inner world quite different than the world of our physical bodies. The impressions given by our senses of the outer world are received internally, and are distinctly individual to each person. These impressions cause feelings in our inner soul world, either sympathetic or antipathetic. These soul feelings then work outward into the world through human will to action. Thus human activity is different than the activities of the external world, because our inner soul world affects our actions.

Next para: "The soul nature of man is not determined by the body alone."

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Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:48 pm
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Post III The Spirit Nature of the Human Being
Our soul life is not dominated/ruled by our body and we don't randomly respond to every stimulus we encounter. Human beings think about what they experience and they think (sometimes :D ) before they act. Our physical body exists within the lawfulness of the physical world, but we can choose to live within the "laws of thought."

By thinking we move into a higher order than the merely physical. Our soul life begins with sensation, our spiritual life begins when we look beyond the merely physical and experiential aspects of life. But physical life and soul life are the basis for the life of the spirit. To understand the human being we must develop a clear understanding of all three levels/aspects.

Next para begins: Man can only come to a true understanding of himself when he grasps clearly the significance of thinking within his being.

I'm really enjoying working in this way, with this text.


Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:07 am
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